By Sarah Becker
That Joe Payne discusses the meaning behind the lyrics on his third new album: ‘Bread and Circuses’; genre hopping and taking risks.
What have you been up to recently?
I have released a new album Bread and Circuses which has gone down very well with my fans. I am very pleased with it.
What does the album title ‘Bread and Circuses’ mean?
‘Bread and Circuses’ is an ancient Roman phrase coined by Julius Caesar which is a political term that implies you give your people just enough to eat and something to keep them entertained so that they never revolt because they will live just satisfied with the life they have even though they might want more.
It’s not worth it for people to rock the boat as they have just enough anyway so they’d rather just leave things as they are knowing they have just enough bread and a circus to go to.
Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt
Satire x, Roman poet juvenal, 100 AD”
That’s a concept that’s followed by all political systems, but now people are starting to question if we are getting enough bread and enough circus. I think everyone in the country is starting to see cracks in what is delivered to us by people in power. We need to start asking are we all well fed and entertained or are we going too hungry and sick of the medic circus.
I’m speaking on behalf of anyone in the music industry where everything has turned on its head. A lot of my friends who are musicians are saying ‘how are we going to fund a record again?’ or ‘how are we going to do a tour and incentivise people to go to it?’ What has happened to record and CD sales now everyone is streaming music?’
I’m in a fortunate position as I’ve spent the last five years building a subscription on Patreon – if it wasn’t for the subscriptions I wouldn’t have anything to subsidise that loss in revenue. I’m very lucky I started Patreon five years ago.
As musicians, we need the time to put mental energy into our work. If I had to take another job I don’t think I could do this job anymore. I say to people all the time if you don’t want me to stop, please become a patreon.
…and the song, ‘Despite everything’?
Its not the most popular song on the record but it’s my favourite. Compositionally it’s a great achievement for me. It’s a very complex piece which is also very fun. My partner Max and I have this joke where one of says, ‘I love you’ and the other says, ‘despite everything.’ It makes us laugh so much. One day I came up with the perfect melody to go with this song. I decided to write about the unconditional love that some people show politicians who exhibit corrupt behaviour. They might be in the news for doing something really shameful, but they just shrug it off saying, ‘Well, we’re all human.’ You can apply it to anyone you want, but its basically questioning the concept of blindly following and making excuses for someone they have always supported and voted for, ‘despite everything.” It could be applied to any kind of maverick leadership figure.
You tend to introduce a mix of genres in your music. Tell us about that.
I do a lot of genre hopping in my music. No two songs are the same for me. One song could be set in a particular era of time eg. in a seedy 1930s’ cabaret club or in an 80s’ stadium rock or 90’s nightclub. I’ll jump around between eras.
I’ll start with a guideline of the kind of sound I am going for and then I’ll work with Max who is my producer and we’ll turn it into something that’s never been heard before.
What sparks the creative process?
I’m usually walking the dog and I’ll think of the hook. The lyric and the melody always come together. On that same walk, I’ll come up with an idea for a verse, a bridge and by the time I get home I can sit at the piano and work out what to do with the song harmonically. I never sit down at the piano and just come up with something at the piano – I find that too intimidating looking at a blank keyboard!
What’s different about your new album compared to the previous one?
I really pandered to an audience in the first album and got away with it. This time I’ve done what the f@@@ I want and got away with it. If it’s not fun, I’m not doing it. This is something I’ve only learnt to think a few years ago.
That was the moment I wrote the Xmas album.
I spent most of my career feeling quite oppressed, just wearing black and keeping my hair short, not wanting to rock the boat and scare away what fan base I had.
Photo credit: Stu Vincent Photography
For years, I performed in the progressive rock scene which tends to be very dominated by white men of a certain age. I have taken some risks about the way I express myself and I think the fans that like it have stayed with me.
I started testing the waters with something a bit more eccentric or poppy than usual. I love to do lots of runs and ‘live my best life’ wishing I was Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston but I wasn’t able to sing like that in any band I’d been in. Anytime I did someone would complain. So I stopped doing that kind of stuff as I was told it was inappropriate for the genre I was in. But it’s not inappropriate for me so maybe I am my own genre.
Thanks very much That Joe Payne.
For details of where to purchase the album, ‘Bread and Circuses’, head over to That Joe Payne’s http://thatjoepayne.com